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Has China been diversifying away from the dollar?

Brad Setser | Apr 9, 2008

The quick answer is I don’t know.

But the revisions to China’s holdings in the survey data – while large absolutely – are nonetheless a bit smaller than I expected. The latest survey data consequently suggest either:

China has reduced the dollar share of its reserves (counting those reserves that have been shifted to the state banks for management)

Changes in the way China manages its reserves – the growing use of state banks, more third party managers and the like – have reduced the share of China’s reserve assets that appear in the US survey data.

In June 2007, identified holdings on the US – a sum that will be smaller than China’s total dollar exposure because it leaves out funds managed by third parties, offshore dollar deposits and dollar-denominated bonds issued by other emerging economies and the World Bank – were $935. That is 70% of China’s reserves, but 62% of China’s “augmented reserves” (augmented reserves includes central bank funds shifted to the state banks through the recapitalization and swap contracts together with the CIC; my method for calculating this is explained here*). That is down from 76% of China’s reserves and 67% of China’s augmented reserves in the middle of 2006, and 77% of China’s reserves and 71%of China’s augmented reserves in the middle of 2005.

* It isn’t clear if my methodology captures the dollars the state banks are now holding to meet their dollar reserve requirement. This though isn’t an issue until the second half of 2007.

china_diversification_2.jpg

As important, from mid 2006 to mid 2007, the $218b rise in China’s identified claims on the US was only 58% of the $373b increase in China’s formal reserves and only 53% of the $411b combined increase in China’s reserves and the foreign assets of China’s state banks (both measures have been adjusted for valuation changes). The comparable numbers for mid 2005 to mid 2006 were 78% and 65%. china_diversification_1.jpg

Data on China's holdings come from the US Treasury survey of foreign portfolio investment in the US; my methodology for calculating China's adjusted reserves is explained here.

More follows -- including more detailed graphs that include estimates of the rise in China's total holdings after the last survey data point. As a result, the gap between the increase in China’s reserves and its identified US holdings has increased.

Two points though are worth emphasizing.

First, there are lots of ways of accumulating dollar assets that would not appear in the US data. The data above represents a floor – not a ceiling – for China’s dollar exposure.

Second, starting in late 2005 and then with more force in 2006 China increased the fraction of its reserves managed by the state banks through the use of swap contracts.

Consequently, one plausible hypothesis is that changes in the way China’s manages reserves reduced the share of Chinese asset growth that shows up in the US data. We know from the Chinese balance of payments data that “private” Chinese investors bought $45b of debt in the first half of 2006 and another $64b in the second half of 2006. The $109b in private Chinese debt purchases over the course of 2006 doubled “private” Chinese holdings of foreign debt securities, so it was a big change. It seems likely that the state banks account for the majority of this increase.

This increase slowed in the first half of 2007, but there is still reason to think that the rise in the share of China’s foreign assets managed by the state banks contributed to the fall in the share of Chinese asset growth that appears in the US data. The state banks might buy more adventurous “structures” (like CDOs) that are legally offshore and thus don’t register in the US data, for example. Or they may buy through their Hong Kong branches. The best available data (from Goldman, based on the end-2006 annual reports of the state banks) indicates that the state banks hold the majority of their assets in dollars. We just don’t know if these dollar holdings register in the US data.

The smaller than expected upward revision in the survey data consequently isn’t conclusive .

The fall in China’s recorded holdings of corporate debt (a category in the US data that includes “private” mortgage backed securities) is particularly suspicious. I am reasonably confident – though the evidence is anecdotal – that Chinese state banks spent much of 2006 buying corporate bonds to get higher yields than available on Treasuries or Agencies. That changed in the second half of 2007. The recorded “portfolio investment” of the state banks fell sharply, and anecdotal evidence suggests that the Chinese banks have been unloading some of the risky debt they took on earlier.

Nonetheless, there is little doubt that something has changed.

The following plots – prepared with the help of Arpana Pandey of the Council on Foreign Relations – combine the monthly TIC data with the survey data. The large jumps every June show the impactof the survey revisions.

The latest survey revisions brought a plot of China’s identified US holdings back up to around 70% of China’s formal reserves.

china_diversification_3.jpg

But the revisions fell well short of bringing China’s identified US holdings up to 70% of my measure of China’s augmented reserves (augmented reserves is my name for the estimated total foreign financial assets of China’s state, including the CIC and the state banks )

china_diversification_4.jpg

It follows that the gap between China’s foreign asset growth and the increase in its recorded US holdings is rising -- and that the rise in Chinese holdings is now well below what is needed to maintain a 70% dollar share of China's reserves (the orange line in the graph below represents what China would have needed to buy to keep a constant 70% dollar share in its broad reserves).

china_diversification_5.jpg

While I suspect some of the gap is explained by undercounting, it probably doesn’t explain the ensure gap. Macroman may have been right. An increase in Chinese demand could have been pushing the euro and pound (and Aussie and Canadian dollars?) up in the first part of 2007 …

A couple of other subplots are worth mentioning –

One – China apparently stopped buying US corporate debt in mid 2006. Its identified holdings fell by about $30b between mid-2006 and mid 2007. That is strange.

Two – China stepped up its equity purchases, with around $30b in purchases from mid 2006 to mid 2007. That was in advance of the formation of the CIC. The State Administration of Foreign Exchange now likely manages a small US equity portfolio.

Third – China has NOT stopped buying Treasuries or Agencies. Recently, it seems to have bought little else. Counting the rise in China’s short-term holdings, China’s purchases of “safe” US assets have been at around $200b since early 2005.

Four -- Even though China’s identified purchases of US debt are a bit on the low side relative to my expectations (and what would be required to keep the dollar share of China’s portfolio constant), they still dwarf China’s purchases of US goods.

From mid-2006 to mid-2007, China bought at least 3.5 times as many US financial assets as US goods. The total could be higher if the US data now understates Chinese purchases in much the same way that it understates Gulf purchases.

china_diversification_exports_v_debt.jpg

That highlights one of my pet peeves.

Most analysis of China’s impact on the US economy often focuses entirely on the goods market. But the US now exports far more debt than goods to China. China’s government is every bit as large a player in the Agency and Treasury market as it is in the commercial aircraft market. And if China really starts buying equities rather than bonds, its impact the equity market could be nearly as large.

Comments
Not only China but so many other countries have reduced their holdings of the U.S. dollar. Unless the FED begins to raise rates

and/or gold retrenches the dollar might nudge up a bit. If gold retrenches 40 to 50% from here it would represent liquidity problems.

The belief that the dollar can recover significantly may be a fallacy with the outstanding trillions to be reconciled.

The time for a new currency may be approaching.
Reply to this comment By NICOLAS on 2008-04-09 07:34:12
Nicolas -- the IMF\'s cofer data doesn\'t suggest such diversification, at least not among those emerging economies that report data to the IMF. I am curious though why you believe that many countries (by which you mean governments i assume) have been reducing their dollar holdings.
Reply to this comment By bsetser on 2008-04-09 07:55:33


Bottom Line: the Chinese own the American government -- literally -- to the tune of enormous holdings of our treasury bond debt, not to mention their ability to supply most of the cheaply manufactured goods that America can no longer produce for itself. To get around our trying to stiff them on the interest payments for the loans they keep floating us (by devaluing our currency), the Chinese have simply resorted to buying up American real-estate (much more of which they\'ll soon get at even lower, bargain-basement prices) and other relatively \"hard\" American assets.



At any rate, our next President, Senator Clinton doesn\'t know Jack Sh!t about China or the Chinese. I had a short-term, six-month job in Beijing when \'first lady\" You-Know-Her started shooting off her mouth before coming to China to bloviate about how the Chinese should treat women in their country. The Chinese didn\'t publicly respond to the rude guest insulting her hosts. They just quietly moved the location of You-Know-Her\'s scheduled speech from a convenient downtown venue to some nowhere forum on the outskirts of the city. I had to laugh at all the bitching and griping we heard in the local English press from You-Know-Her and her entourage when they found so few people showing up for her hard-to-locate harangue. Subtlety: an oriental concept with which the obtuse oligarch You-Know-Her has little, if any, acquaintance.



American Warfare Welfare and Make-work Militarism has turned America into a dead-beat thug with only its discredited \"protection\" racket to sell to a world that neither needs or wants the enormously destructive costs of the \"protection.\"



Fools and knaves \"run\" the American government, and have run it straight into the ground. You-Know-Her holds charter membership in that oligarchic claque of cretins and has no standing whatsoever as a critic of what she has helped cripple. From \"The Best and the Brightest\" to \"The Worst and the Dullest\" in only one generation -- hers. You-Know-Her and all her corrupt, credulous circle need to go -- now. They\'ve done enough harm already.


Reply to this comment By Michael Murry on 2008-04-09 08:29:52
@NICOLAS



\"The time for a new currency may be approaching.\"



Funny you said that, I was thinking of that today too...



People think I´m mad when I say that.
Reply to this comment By AFFG on 2008-04-09 08:46:55
Sorry for this totally out of context link. It\'s re allegations of Hedge Funds systematic shorting Icelandic banks, some riveting stuff...



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/20b359f4-058b-11dd-a9e0-0000779fd2ac.html
Reply to this comment By Pallj on 2008-04-09 08:54:59
China to Increase Stake in BHP Billiton: Report

http://www.cnbc.com/id/24019703



China may be planning to buy more than 9 percent of BHP Billiton, the world\'s biggest miner, The Australian newspaper reported, muscling in on BHP\'s proposed takeover of rival Rio Tinto.



\"China realises she can\'t buy companies outright, but can take a nice minority interest and at least have a stake and a voice in these key strategic resources,\" said Larry Grace, an analyst at Kim Eng Securities in Hong Kong.



Sinosteel last month offered A$954 million for iron ore miner Midwest, while China Metallurgical Corporation has agreed to pay $300 million to buy a Cape Lambert Iron Ore project. \"Effectively, (the Chinese) are the ones underwriting the entire resource sector, \"said Adnan Kucukalic, equity strategist at Credit Suisse First Boston in Sydney.


Reply to this comment By DC on 2008-04-09 09:09:45
It has been stated that China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, as well as Iran, Venezuela and others had been planning to reduce U.S. dollar positions as far back as 2006. The U.S. dollar is a bad investment now as it was then.

Central Bank interventions are not even working to try to bolster the currency.


Reply to this comment By Nicolas on 2008-04-09 10:21:20


http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/paulsons-lament-deregulation-has-been/story.aspx?guid=%7B4AEF15AC-3966-4656-8108-C96712A88D68%7D



Hank Paulson finally admits financial deregulation has failed the United States.


Reply to this comment By Guest on 2008-04-09 11:03:42
Free trade is a wonderful thing as long as Adam Smith\'s basic asumptions hold true.



Trade with China and India is based on America producing nothing but some financial services and funny green pieces of paper (cloth, but let\'s not quibble). American corporations have made massive fortunes on the back of slave labor and teeming hordes of starving poor workers. Meanwhile they shifted factories out of America and received massive tax breaks along the way.



It was all great for shareholders who got richer and richer. Not so good for places like Detroit. Not so good for trade deficits and quality jobs. The only reason we have managed to survive \"free\" trade this long is the fiat US dollar.
Reply to this comment By Expat on 2008-04-09 11:20:16
To AFFG If people think you are mad for saying a new currency is needed tell them to google the word AMERO. I have a bag full of coins French francs, German marks, Italian lire etc. that are worthless and the people in Europe didn\'t ask for the Euro as much as it was imposed upon them.
Reply to this comment By Nicolas on 2008-04-09 11:49:36
re: \"You-Know-Her\"

\"In a move that\'s sure to be seen as controversial, Hillary has contacted the NCAA Board of Directors to argue that Memphis is actually better qualified to be National Champion. Ms. Clinton stated that Memphis, while losing the game, had actually shown more ability to act like a National Champion on Day One. She argued that Memphis had passed every test during the game, including scoring more points than Kansas for 38 minutes. For 38 minutes they had shown the experience necessary to be National Champion. \'Just because some team comes along in the last minute and scores more points than the other guy doesn\'t mean they\'re necessarily able to be National Champion on Day One\'...\" http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/04/quote-for-the-4.html
Reply to this comment By Guest on 2008-04-09 12:11:57
@NICOLAS, AFFG:

\"The time for a new currency may be approaching.\"



My take on the new currency coming (the AMERO) is that it will exist side by side with the Dollar. The AMERO for domestic US/Canada/Mexico and the Dollar as a true international currency, possibly partially backed by gold/silver/oil or basket of commodities to give it value.



Here is the kicker In my opinion, the AMERO will be introduced at 1 AMERO = 1 Dollar, all US/Canada/Mexico citizen accounts converted from Dollar to AMERO, then instantly devalued to some ratio like 3 AMERO per Dollar or even greater (10 to 1?).



This is similar to what happened in Argentina during their economic crisis. And, in the US in 1933 when the dollar was delinked from gold and then revalued.
Reply to this comment By Christopher on 2008-04-09 13:10:15
US(mis)-led western capitalism is inexorably shutting down; why should overindebted Americans pay their bills when the Big Boys are getting bailed out?

\"...If you haven\'t been obsessing over every word Brad Setser has written for the past several years, you owe yourself an education...what the US economy produces is no longer well matched to what Americans consume, and we are structurally unprepared to generate tradables, goods or services, in quantity adequate to cover the difference. The Fed\'s magic wand will be of no use if manufacturers in Asia and oil producers in the Gulf stop giving us stuff for free...\" http://www.interfluidity.com/posts/1207473165.shtml

\"...economic policy retreated from full employment and assisted in the evisceration of unions. That lowered inflation, but it came at the high cost of two decades of wage stagnation and a rupturing of the link between wage and productivity growth...\" http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=103

\"...Senator Chris Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank are in the process of crafting legislation that would possibly create a new entity to help deal with a prospective flood of potential foreclosures. This new entity could buy as much as $300 or $400 billion of mortgages under various types of aid packages. They are not referring to this as a bailout but rather as a “rescue” package. Because of the recent Federal Reserve action that bailed out Bear Stearns and their counter parties, we can expect to hear the argument that, if Wall Street can be bailed out, why should there not be some help given to Main Street? We believe it will be difficult to defeat this type of an argument...\" http://fpafunds.com/news_04022008_rubicon_print.htm
Reply to this comment By Guest on 2008-04-09 14:33:19
I think it is fairly obvious what the elites and their Judas Goats are currently planning and ATTEMPTING to do. Chief Judas Goat Bernanke is going to cut interest rates to zero as more and more jobs are outsourced. Lending standards will have to be lowered further to allow the housing market to \"appreciate\" and for homeowners, whose wages have been trashed, to regain access to their \"home equity\", thus creating \"wealth\" thru more debt.If successful, this will allow the elites to extract more real wealth from the nation and its people and game the system one more time, for old times sake. But it can happen only if you allow them.
Reply to this comment By black swan on 2008-04-09 15:38:42
comments that focus more specifically on changes in the way China manages its reserves would be appreciated.
Reply to this comment By bsetser on 2008-04-09 16:02:19
Dear Brad, sorry for this long post,

You should be given the medal of infinite patience, for coping with all of us up, and politely.

You say:

\"Most analysis of China’s impact on the US economy often focuses entirely on the goods market. But the US now exports far more debt than goods to China. China’s government is every bit as large a player in the Agency and Treasury market as it is in the commercial aircraft market. And if China really starts buying equities rather than bonds, its impact the equity market could be nearly as large.\"

Most of us don\'t understand Chinese policy and less their economic policy. Maybe, that\'s the root of all that noise of previous comments. But anyway, as you are the world boss analysing those moves, thank you for writing so clearly the comparison with the aircraft market. It gives us a dimension of the problem. And at the same time you say that they will be allowed to buy equities, that before weren\'t. Crisis times.

But most of us know that Chinese are almost as patient as you, or strategically, maybe more. But nobody understands the meaning of their behaviour. I don\'t think it\'s inertia. Most of them are used to live with few things and the ones in power are as corrupt as WS.

So, what.

I think that we are watching to a move to save WS, while inflationing up the worldwide economy, and socialise looses from financial world to avoid a depression that won\'t work.

The sad thing is that lots of people will starve to death. And nobody wants to understand that we are in peak times: peak oil, peak credit, peak soil, peak confidence… peak people…

We\'ll learn to leave with less, or our sons&daughters and our nephews&nieces won\'t survive.

A year ago, even you thought that Nouriel\'s predictions were too grim… Today, P. Krugman says he was on track.

It\'s a pity to be in that situation, but the Fed decisions are making a loot poorer millions of people fighting for rice or bread.

It\'s no time of superpowers, it\'s time of shame!

It\'s no time of war, it\'s time of peace!

The USA decisions of last years have destroyed the world economy, ecology, and common sense!

Just for greed!

It\'s a pitty!

Thank you a lot for enlightening all of ignorant ones!

Best whishes!

PS: Beware who do you vote for!

About the war read please: Asia Times Online :: Middle East News, Iraq, Iran current affairs

About food and collapse: European Tribune - Economic Collapse Watch: Riots in Haiti over Food Prices

About the total disaster: Asia Times Online :: Asian news and current affairs

http://www.isecureonline.com/Reports/ESI/EESIJ421/

The Automatic Earth

Tkx brad and sorry the rest




Reply to this comment By koteli on 2008-04-09 17:38:25
Grrr! I always forget the old linking rule!

Let\'s correct the links of my PS, keeping their order:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JD10Ak04.html

http://www.eurotrib.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2008/4/8/22252/04230

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JD10Dj03.html

http://www.isecureonline.com/Reports/ESI/EESIJ421/

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/


Reply to this comment By koteli on 2008-04-09 17:51:26
Sorry,



I forgot one of the most important things of all of them:



Peak water!




Reply to this comment By koteli on 2008-04-09 19:22:15
Robert Rubin, the former Secretary of the Treasury, had previously worked for Goldman Sachs for 26 years, where he rose to the rank of Co-Chairman. He is now the power behind the power at Citigroup, a banking conglomerate that was created by the supermerger between Travelers Group and Citicorp, after the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act (Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act). The creation of the possibly insolvent banking giant, Citigroup, happened under the watchful eye of former Secretary of the Treasury, Rubin, who now thinks a government bailout of bad loans, which are endemic to his bank, is a good idea.
Reply to this comment By DC on 2008-04-09 20:08:26
To dear DC, and all his a allies.



Listen carefully, please, to this interview to Michael Greensberger, in NPR Fresh Air:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89338743

And then, read this carefully:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet/weill/demise.html

And then, stop disturbing brad\'s blog, please.

We, the ordinary people, just could add a little of common sense, but you\'ll not add anything by repeating the same thing one thousand times and one more (saying it in the arab way).



So, let R. Rubin R.I.P. (Requiestcant In Pace), Rest Pacefully in USamerican disaster economy! He\'s not in charge right now even if MS. Hillary wanted him and Greenspan in the solution of the disaster.



Who pays your \"next presidents\"?



Maybe, it\'s more important than steerring the s**t of R. Rubin.



Sorry, Brad.
Reply to this comment By koteli on 2008-04-09 20:44:13
Sorry to everybody,

I forgot Brad\'s post the post in my obsession!

The Chinese have bought more debt than US is worth, in different words (money is money, paper is paper and IOUs are IOUs), but we\'re reserve currency with lots of black-matter and hidden inflation around the world.

Next day, we\'ll talk about the worthyness of US economy.



In between, we are the bank of the casino.



Please, comment on the blog subject, please.



I\'m going to bed.






Reply to this comment By koteli on 2008-04-09 21:44:31
Brad:

I hope this is not too off topic. In 2005-6 there was a flurry of stories about an Asian currency union.I have not seem anything recently. But I wonder if there is some coordination agreement between Asian countries to de facto devalue the dollar while remaining basically even amongst themselves. Sort of like a canal lock. The water remains calm while the ship is lowered
Reply to this comment By plschwartz on 2008-04-09 22:36:09
Yuan Advances Past 7 to Dollar, First Time Since End of Link



By Judy Chen and Kim Kyoungwha



April 10 (Bloomberg) -- The yuan rose past 7 to the dollar for the first time since the fixed exchange rate ended in 2005 as China seeks to slow inflation and reduce its trade surplus.



China has allowed a 4.5 percent gain in the currency this year, more than half the gain for all of 2007, as U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson last week said China\'s currency needs to reflect economic fundamentals. A stronger yuan may also help Premier Wen Jiabao to prevent the economy overheating by lowering import costs and raising export prices.



The nation\'s policy makers ``are accelerating the pace of renminbi appreciation as they should,\'\' said Jim O\'Neill, London-based head of global economic research at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. in a television interview. ``It\'s pretty clear China is going to keep a tightening policy.\'\'



The yuan rose 0.13 percent to 6.9923 versus the dollar as of 9:32 a.m. in Shanghai, according to the China Foreign Exchange Trade System. The central bank set the rate at 6.9920 in Shanghai, compared with yesterday\'s closing price of 7.0017, according to China Foreign Exchange Trade System.



It took 1 1/2 years for the currency, also known as the renminbi, to climb from a break of 8 on May 15, 2006 to 7.5 on October 24, 2007 and then less than six months to gain a further 0.5 yuan. Forward contracts show traders are betting on an 11.1 percent advance to 6.3020 in the next 12 months.


Reply to this comment By Guest on 2008-04-09 22:42:28
China\'s Quarterly Trade Surplus Falls as Exports Cool (Update2)



By Li Yanping



April 10 (Bloomberg) -- China\'s quarterly trade surplus fell for the first time in more than three years, underscoring the risk that weakening demand will slow the world\'s biggest driver of economic growth.



The trade surplus declined 10.2 percent to about $41.6 billion in the three months to March 31 from a year earlier, according to calculations by Bloomberg News based on trade data released by the Ministry of Commerce. The official statistics are due to be released by the Customs Bureau tomorrow.


Reply to this comment By Guest on 2008-04-09 22:53:48
guest -- i want to look at the data, but my guess is that the fall in china\'s surplus v q1 of 07 stems at least as much from changes in the price of oil as a slowdown in export growth. oil was $50-60 for most of q1 07. It was around $100 for most of q1 08. that is a big change. export growth also likely slowed, but i would bet a terms of trade shock on commodity imports also played a big role.



as for breaking 7 -- well, it would mean more if the rmb were appreciating v the euro not just the $. but that is my usual refrain.



plschwartz -- i don\'t think there was any formal agreement. but i do think most asian central banks worry if they appreciate more than the rmb. so even absent coordination, the pace of rmb appreciation may influence others decisions, and thus produce the appearance of a canal lock. certainly countries that have for a while appreciated more than china (korea 05/ india in early 07) often have then slowed the pace of appreciation to let china catch. some of that is b/c of market pressures, but not all.



tis tho possible to tell the story in different ways -- in 05 and 06, korea felt like they weren\'t in the canal lock moving up and down together. but i do think that a general desire not to appreciate too much faster than china has produced something of a canal lock effect.



p.s. i consider the comment far more on topic than comments on rubin in the 90s/ us central bank policy in the 00s, as it directly touches on asian intervention even if it doesn\'t touch on chinese fx management, and thus relates broadly to the meta-theme of the post.
Reply to this comment By bsetser on 2008-04-09 23:11:34
If China shifts from US bonds to equities, the yields on Treasuries and agencies would likely go up significantly...damaging the value of China\'s bond portfolio. Also, it seems to me that any individual stock couldn\'t absorb enough of the country\'s reserves to make a dent in the amount of reserves needing to be placed. Perhaps China could step in as a funder of US IPO\'s; companies going public might not necessarily be seen as \"strategic\" to US politicians and thus the kind of backlash against acquisitions by China might be avoided.
Reply to this comment By Scott on 2008-04-09 23:13:03
China has revised its 2007 GDP figure. The real GDP growth was 11.9%. The really interesitng thing for me is that the nominal GDP growth was 37% in 2007 in yuan. In dollar it was 44%, and at the end of December exchange rate, the GDP was 4 trillion dollar. The groth of the US nominal GDP was 4.9% last year, and its value was 13.8 trillion dollar. If the current trends were to continue (39% difference in the nominal GDP growth), then in 4 years China would become the biggest economy in nominal terms. I know that this is a big if, but this possibility is still amazing.
Reply to this comment By AC on 2008-04-10 03:45:24


Listen Boys, It\'s the Fed that is mostly responsible for US Economic Imbalances as per Joseph Stiglitz, Marc Faber, and Jim Rogers. And who advises Bernanke on the Fed bailout of Wall Street Banks and Hedge Funds on a daily basis. The bankster Robert Rubin.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/24010022/site/14081545



The voices of those who accuse the Fed of debasing the currency and creating moral hazard are stronger and stronger.



Former World Bank chief economist Joseph Stiglitz, eternal bear Marc Faber and renowned investor Jim Rogers accused the Fed of being the source for the global credit turmoil that is crippling financial markets.



Asked what he would do if he were in Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke’s shoes, Rogers said: “I would abolish the Federal Reserve and I would resign.”



“If you bail out an investment bank that gets in trouble, that’s not capitalism, that’s socialism for the rich,\" Rogers told CNBC Europe. \"That’s not the way this system is supposed to work. And why should 300 million Americans suffer so that we can bail out two or three investment banks on Wall Street?”



Stiglitz said some of the statements made by Fed officials over time had contributed to exacerbating the problem. “(Former Fed Chairman Alan) Greenspan, at the very moment interest rates were at the low, advised Americans to go out (and) take these veritable rate mortgages, which have been the source of the problem, when there was a clear bubble,” Stiglitz said.






Reply to this comment By DC on 2008-04-10 06:25:54
“If you bail out an investment bank that gets in trouble, that’s not capitalism, that’s socialism for the rich,\" Rogers told CNBC Europe. \"That’s not the way this system is supposed to work. And why should 300 million Americans suffer so that we can bail out two or three investment banks on Wall Street?”





DC - A tentative answer: Probably \'cos without sharing (sorry, socializing) the problems, paralyzed credit markets would eventually mean paralyzed businesses and that\'s bad for Americans, Asians, Australians, Europeans...well, just about everyone else. As it is some businesses, like Dole (think bananas and oranges if nothing else), are havoing difficulty paying off future debt and are said to be drawing on lines of credit ; that\'s red alarm for liquidity problems and may indicate going concern problems.



Brad- perhaps the Chinese are covertly buying into Europe and Australia, which begs the question when contagion goes global and everyone is dragged into a slowdown, what would they buy? Maybe assets in Africa? That\'s gonna go well with human rights lobbyists!


Reply to this comment By Judy Yeo on 2008-04-10 06:56:59
@Christopher,



This AMERO thing is big in the \"Conspiracy World\". I have problems believing it, because I see no interest in the US inheriting more problems from Mexico than it already has and Canada inheriting problems from the USA AND Mexico.



\"My take on the new currency coming (the AMERO) is that it will exist side by side with the Dollar.\"



That never really works. We had this in Europe with the ECU. You can´t imagine what happened when the Deutsch Mark rallied and eveybody else had to chase the DM ... it caused the Pound to leave the ECU when Sorros broked the BoE.



\"The AMERO for domestic US/Canada/Mexico and\"



Which yoyo is going to hold a currency from a country which is on the brink of bancrupty? The AMERO would hyperinflate faster than you can say \"AMERO\". People would rush into Gold and other hard assets ... notably your new Dollar, since it is backed by gold. Why would anybody with a half way functioning brain want to hold a FIAT-Currency when it just lost one which is on top of that NOW backed by Gold?



\"the Dollar as a true international currency,\"



I think those day´s are over. Even \"Kudlow\" is talking about the American Peso ... even so I must say, that should be a contrarian indicator. ;-) I still do expect the Dollar to rally against the EURO and to tumble against the Yen. I am short Euro and long Yen!



\"possibly partially backed by gold/silver/oil or basket of commodities to give it value.\"



Well partially or not makes a big difference, because by separating the internal demand for a currency from external demand makes the value of the dollar go to zero. So you will need a backing of some sort.





\"Here is the kicker In my opinion, the AMERO will be introduced at 1 AMERO = 1 Dollar, all US/Canada/Mexico citizen accounts converted from Dollar to AMERO\"



And what will be the convertibility between US Peso, Canadian Dollar and the Mexican Peso? Careful that is what broke the back of the East German economy as the East German Mark was converted 3:1 to the mighty Deutsch Mark. I could easily see a race to the bottom here.



\"then instantly devalued to some ratio like 3 AMERO per Dollar or even greater (10 to 1?).\"



I am not too sure that Americains will like the AMERO very much if they found out, that the Gov. just robbed them ... a pretty bad start for a new currency don´t you think?



I just don´t see the point of all this \"mess\". It would be easier just to cut the dollar loose, come out and say we introduce a new currency (we can call it AMERO if you want), we back it by Gold at let say, 3000 $/Oz and evaluate the AMERO to let say 100 AMERO/OZ and have the interest rate policy be set by the markets.



But somehow I don´t see that happening. Gold backing .. ??? The dollar would have to go to 0 first before we get that.
Reply to this comment By AFFG on 2008-04-10 07:02:05
@Scott on 2008-04-09 23:13:03,



China is loosing more money with the appreciation of it´s currency having it money in treasuries and agencies, then it will in the stock market, because hard assets will go up in value IF the dollar continues to fall.



So don´t count too much on that assumption.
Reply to this comment By AFFG on 2008-04-10 07:09:06
WOW ... trade deficit widens .. and the trade surplus of china is shrinking ... who is the bad guy this time? Middle East? That ain´t good news for the Amricain Dollar.
Reply to this comment By AFFG on 2008-04-10 07:44:59


AFFG,



If Americans would kick the gas guzzler SUV habit, energy imports from the Middle East wouldn\'t be a major problem since the US still produces 30-40% of its own oil usage. For instance, a Chevy Suburban SUV built is Mexico by GM burns twice the fuel of a Toyota Corolla built in California or three times the fuel of a Toyota Prius built in Japan. If Americans are complaining about high gasoline price, look no further than the bathroom mirror.
Reply to this comment By DC on 2008-04-10 08:30:21


\"paralyzed credit markets would eventually mean paralyzed businesses and that\'s bad for Americans, Asians, Australians, Europeans...well, just about everyone else.\" - Judy



Citicorp\'s Robert Rubin can lobby for a trillion dollar US taxpayer bailout from the Federal Reserve, but the rest of the world isn\'t going to bailout or finance bad management by the Bernanke Federal Reserve. Frankly, the rest of the world Central Banks aren\'t even lifting a finger to prevent the implosion of the US Dollar because there is simply nothing that can be done. Bernanke is flat wrong, the China PBoC isn\'t going to purchase unlimited fiat US Dollars, the collapse of the US dollar isn\'t China\'s problem but America\'s.


Reply to this comment By DC on 2008-04-10 08:48:54
@DC,



That might be right, but if Becky from blabbering CNBC is right, then it seems that Oil wasn´t the issue here! That is why I am a bit perplex. Who is exporting to the US? China seems to have dropped, Middle East too, Europe in the face of a skyrocketing Euro?



I had to laugh when \"the professor\" on CNBC said that exports were fantastic but imports were even better. LAUGH ... they even manage to make bad news sound good. You have to love´em for that.



AFFG
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