The new (financial) world order
Brad Setser
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Jan 18, 2008
In 2007: China’s government added $430b to its foreign exchange reserves. Russia’s government added $150b to its foreign exchange reserves. China’s state banks likely – this is the only point here where there is some real doubt – added around $150b to their foreign portfolio, or would have, had China not made it harder to borrow from abroad and thus forced them to pay down some of their external debt. The state banks' dollar purchases reduced the central bank’s need to intervene in the market (apparently the exchange rate risk remains with the government). The central bank basically told the state banks to hold more of their required reserves in dollars. Brazil’s government added a bit over $90b to its reserves. Brazil’s Treasury holdings are up close to $70b for through November, in another kind of reverse bailout. India's government added a bit under $90b to its reserves, almost none of which seems to have been invested in US Treasuries. The China Investment Corporation likely had about $17b to invest abroad – as the majority of the funds it raised in 2007 were used to buy the central banks’ stake in the state banks and to recapitalize China Development Bank. It will get something like $105b early in 2008. Maybe $45b to $50b of that is already committed to the recapitalize the domestic banking system, leaving up to $60b more to invest abroad. But the CIC is still the smallest official investor among the BRICs. Sum it up and the BRICs added just a bit under $800b ($760b) to their formal foreign exchange reserves (the total would top $800b if I counted China, Russia and India’s valuation gains) even without counting the Chinese banks. Counting the state banks and the CIC, the total is more like $900b. I was conservative back in July. Goldman started dreaming of the BRICs well before energy traders started dreaming about $100 a barrel oil. The Gulf can hardly be left out of the discussion today. The Saudi Monetary Agency’s foreign assets likely increased by $75b in 2007 -- they were up over $60b through November (Table 8a, in Saudi riyal). Saudi pension funds added another $5b. The Gulf's other central banks likely added close to $50b to their reserves – though we are still waiting for data from the Emirates for the second half of the year. The big existing Gulf investment funds – the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority (which, incidentally is likely to be bit smaller than the $875b to $1 trillion total that is commonly cited; see Mohsin Khan’s statements in the FT), the Kuwait Investment Authority, the Qatar Investment Authority and the confusing jumble of Dubai investment funds (some belonging to Dubai, run by Sheik Mohamed, and some belong to Sheik Mohamed, ruler of Dubai) – likely added around $100b to their assets. The $100b total doesn’t count any additional funds that they borrowed to finance some of their more aggressive strategies, or the capital gains on their existing holdings. $100b is what the funds got from their countries surplus oil revenues and the interest on their existing holdings. Gulf central banks and sovereign funds collectively added about $225b to their foreign assets, and maybe $150b to their dollar assets. The rapid growth in central bank reserves (still mostly in dollars) likely offset the diversification done by various wealth funds.*
It is likely that the world’s central banks added close to $1,200b to their assets in 2007, China’s state banks chipped in another $150b or so, and various sovereign funds – including Norway’s funds – combined for about $150b. Those sums are so large that they are almost impossible to fathom, let alone believe. That is why I tried to spell out precisely who accounts for the increase. And for all the attention that sovereign funds have received – their recent contributions to the recapitalization of Merrill and Citi, after earlier investments in UBS and Morgan Stanley merited an Economist cover – the overwhelming majority of the increase in sovereign assets still came from central banks. They – together with the Chinese banks, who have generally been fairly conservative – likely accounted for between 85% and 90% of the total increase in sovereign assets. The attention catching deals generally have come from the long-established funds, who -- for various reasons – are willing to be much bolder than they have been in the past. ADIA, KIA, the GIC and Temasek account for the lion’s share of recent recapitalizations. And that isn’t because China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Brazil and India lack the money. Even the laggards in this group – Saudi Arabia, Brazil and India – added roughly as much to their foreign assets as the Gulf city-states combined. The over whelming majority of Chinese, Russian and Saudi foreign assets are still managed fairly conservatively. China (counting the state banks as part of China, Inc) spent far, far more buying Agencies and (yes) Treasuries (though in ways that don’t yet show up in the US data) than buying Blackstone, Morgan Stanley, Barclays and South Africa’s Standard bank. The big shift has yet to come. Blackstone and Morgan Stanley represent less than a week of China’s foreign asset accumulation. And, one foreign banker quoted in Henny Sender’s excellent FT article notes, “"The Chinese government has too much money," declares the head of strategy at one foreign bank in Shanghai. "Everything is government. They are controlling all the investment flows outside China. " The debate on sovereign funds – at least so far – has focused largely on the question of whether or not these funds will be invested for commercial or strategic purposes. The precise way sovereign funds manage their growing stakes is a real issue, and poses real dilemmas. But framing the debate as “strategic” v “commercial” still seems a bit too narrow too me. -- Sovereign funds may be managed commercially, but in ways that do not reflect the wishes of their populations. It isn’t at all clear that China’s residents would rather lose money (remember that the CIC needs a very high dollar return just to break even; see Andrew Rozanov) investing on commercial terms abroad rather than investing more at home on non-commercial terms. As Jim Fallows highlights, the money China’s finance ministry raises for the CIC could be used, for example, to build schools -- and yes, I realize that this would imply a broader adjustment, since the CIC would no longer be a mechanism for moving china’s savings out of the country. It isn’t hard to think of other examples: the population of the Gulf, for example, might well prefer a smaller dollar portfolio than the Gulf states now have. -- The line between investments driven by policy and commercial investments will never be clear. China so far has done far better trading its foreign exchange reserves for equity stakes in its state banks than on its investment in US and European banks. The CIC has done better financially on its investment in the China railway group than on its investment in Blackstone. -- Commercially managed funds will sell, not just buy. That will be particularly true if some sovereign wealth funds morph in sovereign hedge funds in their quest for higher returns. Sovereign hedge funds will want to match the strategies of other sophisticated players; that means going short as well as long. And it isn’t at all clear that any country that is being sold heavily by a sovereign fund will believe that the sovereign funds’ decision is purely commercial. Ask Iceland. They didn’t like it when Norway’s fund started shorting their banks. Imagine the outcry is sovereign funds – not private hedge funds and private banks – had shorted the Thai baht (a very good commercial decision) back in 1997, helping to trigger the broader Asian crisis. And finally, even if sovereign funds are managed commercially, there is an enormous difference between a world where central banks $1200b to their portfolio and sovereign funds add $150b to their portfolio and a world where sovereign funds add $1200b to their portfolio of risk assets and central banks add $150b to their portfolio of Treasuries and Agencies. As recently as 2004, central banks “only” added $600-700b to their assets – and almost all of their reserves were invested in the safest of government bonds. Even if sovereigns invest over $1 trillion on commercial terms outside their borders, the sheer scale of their demand will have an impact on the market. The positive case is that this shift will end some of the distortions associated with excessive official demand for bonds, distortions that indirectly helped to encourage over-investment in residential real estate, excessive home price appreciation and the subprime crisis. The negative case is that this shift will introduce new distortions to new markets. And then there is another question: to date, most attention has focused on how sovereign funds manage their money, rather than why sovereign funds have so much money in the first place. Yet the decision to accumulate so much money in sovereign wealth funds is intrinsically a political decision. And generally, speaking, it reflects a set of policy decisions that have, in my view, impeded a necessary adjustment in the global economy. This is most obvious for China. Its foreign asset accumulation cannot be attributed to an unexpected rise in commodity prices. The reason why the CIC is selling long-term RMB bonds to buy risky foreign assets is that it is meant to substitute for the PBoC selling short-term RMB bills to buy safe foreign assets. Both are accumulating assets to avoid a faster pace of exchange rate adjustment. Sender: China's capital controls mean that private sector money, mostly from the country's burgeoning trade surplus, cannot easily leave the country. In the past, ingenious investors found ways to get money offshore, despite the rules and helped offset the trade surpluses. In an open, less controlled economy, these pressures mean the currency would appreciate or interest rates would rise. But the government is reluctant to let the currency appreciate for fear of hurting smaller exporters and unwilling to let interest rates rise because of the impact on weaker firms. But it is also true in the oil exporting economies. Their central banks are also intervening in the market to offset market pressure for their exchange rates to adjust. And their sovereign funds have so much money because their governments have made a policy decision to save the majority of the countries oil wealth centrally rather than find ways to distribute more of the revenue to the broad population. This is fundamentally a political choice, one that has had the effect of strengthening the power of many less-than-fully democratic states. Far less of the oil windfall likely would be saved if the windfall was distributed more broadly. Or far more of the oil windfall might end up being invested at home if it was distributed more broadly. Consequently, I think it is more than fair to view the rise of sovereign wealth funds as by product of a set of policy decisions that continue to impede global balance of payments adjustment. That would be true no matter whether the resulting pools of foreign assets are invested in safe bonds or potentially risky banks. It would be true no mater whether the funds are managed commercially or invested strategically. And I worry a bit that the debate over sovereign funds has displaced the debate over global adjustment. Yet absent adjustment – adjustment that no doubt would be facilitated by a US energy policy that helped reduce oil demand – the US will necessarily be selling large quantities of itself to emerging market governments for a long time. That is a fundamental characteristic of the current global system. The US is running a far larger deficit than private creditors want to finance in good times. And, well, in bad times, it isn’t really clear that private creditors want to finance any US deficit at all … *Rachel Ziemba and I based our estimate of the increase in the Gulf's sovereign funds on the data made available through the IMF along with an estimate of the surplus oil revenues for each country. Our paper on the Gulf can be found on my CFR web page.
Comments
Having listened to GW today and hearing your concerns, I ask: How we do we pay for his or anyone else's package--shifting debt from private to public?
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By Stormy on 2008-01-18 11:15:00
judging from the current market yields on treasuries, there is no current shortage of demand for USG IOUs.
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By bsetser on 2008-01-18 11:18:22
Perhaps after the British were shafted by US Treasury officials to dump 60% of their Gold reserve holdings at half the current spot price, even the British are turning to the Chinese for their future :-)
U.K. Offers London as Base for China's $200 Bln Fund
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=arHB.yWPGJ80&refer=asia
Jan. 18 (Bloomberg) -- U.K. Prime Minister Gordon Brown offered London as an overseas base for China Investment Corp., the nation's $200 billion sovereign wealth fund, aiming to encourage the world's fastest-growing major economy to invest in Britain.
``CIC setting up in London would foster closer ties and help make it more willing to commit capital to British opportunities,'' said Barry Livett, co-chair of financial services at the British Chamber of Commerce in China and chief executive of Abacus Corporate Finance.
China last year surpassed the U.K. as the biggest exporter to the Eurozone and Brown wants to sell British luxury brands to consumers, attract Chinese students to U.K. universities and draw the country's estimated 300 million soccer fans to the English Premier League.
Crucial Relationship
``Amidst the global economy's difficulties and turbulence, the importance of China and our growing relationship is absolutely crucial to the success of the global economy,'' Brown said during his first China trip as prime minister.
China may surpass the U.K. as the second largest market for Rolls-Royce luxury cars, the brand's owner Bayerische Motoren Werke AG said in April 2007. Rolls-Royce sold 75 cars in China in 2006, half of the brand's Asia-Pacific sales and about 10 percent of global sales.
``We can now sell China not just financial services, but also a whole range of British brands that are becoming very popular among the rising number of Chinese consumers,'' Brown said.
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By Dave Chiang on 2008-01-18 11:37:00
The New World Order is a multi-polar World Order for the better of humanity. The rest of the world is alot less worried about SWF investment for economic industrial development than the US bombing and invading another sovereign nations in the name of liberal democracy (ie. Haiti, Panama, Vietnam, Somalia, Yugoslavia, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc). I'm sure America's founding father Thomas Jefferson would be aghast at the Neo-liberalism, interventionist policies of the Washington Consensus. The US could easily solve 99% of its foreign policy problems by minding its own damn business.
"America should engage in economic trade with all other nations, but avoid all entanglement alliances with other nations in the world". - Thomas Jefferson
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By Dave Chiang on 2008-01-18 11:49:22
Both in the case of China and the Middle East, it's actually unclear whether spending more money instead of saving it in treasuries would result in higher social welfare.
In the case of Chinese spending on schools and healthcare, money is not the problem since there is more than enough money to spend on schools and healthcare. The goal for 2012 is to have free education up to grade nine and universal health care. The cost of both is likely to total about $120 billion/year, and there is more than enough money to spend for that. Cost is not an issue.
The problem which is in the process of being solved is to create a good administrative system for directing that spending. If you start spending large amounts of money without administrative controls and checks, bad, bad, bad things happen. If you go to your typical county administrator and say, here is a blank check, go spend it on schools and healthcare, I doubt much of it will go to anything socially beneficial.
DC: The US could easily solve 99% of its foreign policy problems by minding its own damn business.
I don't think that is true. Without some sort of global political and economic framework, you get anarchy.
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By Twofish on 2008-01-18 12:28:25
technically, foreign investment in your country is your own business (part of sovereignty) -- this is a point china has made forcefully, and I think correctly.
large outward investment that stem from government policy decisions though inevitably involve getting into other people's business. a host of countries now care about the united states policy toward foreign investment that didn't care much in the past.
what is new is that the is now the big recipient of flows (including gov. flows) from the rest of the world, not the supplier of flows --
don't worry, dc, the us isn't exporting much neoliberalism right now. on the other hand, it has imported more state ownership (via SWFs) of its big banks than historically has been the case.
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By bsetser on 2008-01-18 12:32:05
i'd _love_ to see china mobile (mkt cap $300bn!) try to take over sprint/motorola (combined mkt cap now less than $60bn ;) etc. make up your own combos and DREAM BIG (what other technology transfers would DC like to see?) just tell yourself it's all worth it, cuz in the end it's all any of us can do to get thru the day :P cheers!
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By Guest on 2008-01-18 12:40:53
"I don't think that is true. Without some sort of global political and economic framework, you get anarchy."
Show me where it is written in the US Constitution that the US should politically and economically intervene in every region of the world where there is anarchy? In most foreign national situations, with the US intervening for one faction versus another based on domestic US political considerations, the political and security situation is further destabilized in these foreign situations. Let me further reiterate that the carpet bombing of Yugoslavia by the Clinton-Rubin Administration was criminal under the US Constitution which explicitly states that only Congress has the legal authority to declare war against another sovereign nation. Contrary to absurd claims by CNN, Yugoslavia never represented a national security threat to the United States, but the carpet bombing of Yugoslavia served as a convenient political distraction for Bill Clinton to avoid impeachment charges for his Monica Lewinsky sex scandal.
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By Dave Chiang on 2008-01-18 12:50:44
DC -- you are starting to veer rather far off topic. I was hoping for a discussion of whether the commercial/ strategic distinction works for SWFs, and whether or not it matters for public policy if SWFs are building up assets in an effort to impede adjustment.
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By bsetser on 2008-01-18 12:58:30
True, there seems no shortage for USG IOU's. That is where many are now going, waiting to see what happens.
Eventually, however, all pipers must be paid.
Re Brown: Will he ultimately follow Blair's lead and become a lobbyist? This whole thing is sick. And will he pad his new cage before he leaves office? Sorry about the off-topic screed....just getting tired of our so-called leaders.
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By Stormy on 2008-01-18 13:02:42
Brad.. according to other sources Russia added over 170 billion. (303-474)
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By Finlandia on 2008-01-18 13:14:42
Brad,
In China today, both business and government people will tell you that "business is business, and politics is politics". Despite friction between the Chinese and Taiwan government, there has been no legal or financial impediments imposed on Taiwan companies doing business in mainland China, as long as it is of an apolitical nature. Unlike the interventionist US foreign policy agenda, the Chinese foreign ministry is explicit in stating that the Chinese government will not interfere in the internal afairs of other sovereign nations (ie. the only exception is when Chinese nationals are directly physically threatened - Kidnapping in Sudan, Riots in Rome Italy's Chinatown, etc). The Chinese SWF will act accordingly in the economic sphere and will not attempt to politically dictate the policies of companies that it invests in. The Chinese SWF fund that invests in Morgan Stanley isn't any different than the New Jersey state-owned employees pension fund that also invests in Morgan Stanley. The NJ state owned employees pension fund also invests in China Mobile and China Telecom, so why is that so different.
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By Dave Chiang on 2008-01-18 13:16:10
(1) India added a bit under $90b to its reserves, almost none of which seems to have been invested in US Treasuries.
My admiration only grows for the great Indian macroeconomic management team: The Singh - Chidambaram duo is too smart to be hoodwinked into investing too much of their people's hard-earned money in riffraff like greenbacks. India shining, indeed.
(2) Foreign investors probably won't buy Western companies en masse as the protectionists fear. Call Prince Al-Walid bin Talal "Mr. 4.9 Percent" lest he risk invoking CFIUS scrutiny and whatever version the Europeans have.
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By Emmanuel on 2008-01-18 13:18:17
today (friday 18) a keynesian 'surge' is proposed in another 'reflate-the-bubble' initiative. Question : if so much of the bubble money so far has ended up offshore, will the latest 'helicopter drop' head the same way ?
prediction : in 2012 china will be being begged to buy boeing. they say they will think about it. meanwhile DC will cling stubbornly to his theory that 'dollar hegemony' (i e free credit extended to spendthrift america, by itself ) is an unfair advantage.
prediction : in 2013 the eurozone breaks up voluntarily, afraid that if they do not they will be obliged to become the hegemonic fiat reserve currency.
.
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By gillies on 2008-01-18 14:10:01
Emmanuel: "My admiration only grows for the great Indian macroeconomic management team: The Singh - Chidambaram duo is too smart to be hoodwinked into investing too much of their people's hard-earned money in riffraff like greenbacks."
I don't know where this comes from: if they are not buying Treasuries then what are they holding? Probably just cash deposits which is even worse than Treasuries because it earns zero interest while the dollar keeps sinking.
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By 50 Cent on 2008-01-18 14:16:25
"...the annual expansion in China’s trade has been larger than India’s total annual trade during last several years... The most important factor that still holds back large [Indian] firms from entering these products is a set of draconian labour laws in India..." http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2008/01/china-fact-of-t.html
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By Guest on 2008-01-18 14:34:08
DC: The US could easily solve 99% of its foreign policy problems by minding its own damn business.
I don't think that is true. Without some sort of global political and economic framework, you get anarchy.
***********
What nonsense. The US "framework" as you put it is merely an excuse for imperialism, now directed at the Muslim world on behalf of Israel. Of course the US would like people to think its "world order" is essential to keep the world orderly. It is not. DC has it right.
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By Guest on 2008-01-18 14:38:49
The BBC's Greg Palast (the man who broke the story on electoral fraud in Florida during Bush's last campaign), has this to say:
http://www.gregpalast.com/george-of-arabia-better-kiss-your-abe-goodbye/#more-1944
"What’s really behind Bush’s hajj to Riyadh is that America is in hock up to our knickers. The sub-prime mortgage market implosion, hitting a dozen banks with over $100 billion in losses, is just the tip of the debt-berg.
"Since taking office, Bush has doubled the federal debt to more than $5 trillion. And, according to US Treasury figures, on net, foreign investors have purchased close to 100% of that debt. That’s $3 trillion borrowed from the Saudis, the Chinese, the Japanese and others.
"Now, Bush, our Debt Junkie-in-Chief, needs another fix. The US Treasury, Citibank, Merrill-Lynch and other financial desperados need another hand-out from Abdullah’s stash. Abdullah, in turn, gets this financial juice by pumping it out of our pockets at nearly $100 a barrel for his crude.
"Bush needs the Saudis to charge us big bucks for oil. The Saudis can’t lend the US Treasury and Citibank hundreds of billions of US dollars unless they first get these US dollars from the US. The high price of oil is, in effect, a tax levied by Bush but collected by the oil industry and the Gulf kingdoms to fund our multi-trillion dollar governmental and private debt-load."
[…]
“The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back. … It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity…. There are no nations, there are no peoples. There is only one vast and immense, interwoven, multi-national dominion of petro-dollars. … There is no America. There is no ‘democracy.’ The world is a business, one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work.”
[…]
"The Bush Administration, rather than tax Americans to cover our deficits or make the banks suffer the consequences of their predatory lending practices, is allowing the Saudis to charge us big time at the pump with the understanding they will lend it all back to us - so the party never has to stop.
It has been reported that the President’s Secret Service men traveling with him seemed embarrassed by the eye-popping loads of diamond and gold gifts which they have to carry back for President Bush. They need not feel they have taken too much from their hosts: Bush has assured Abdullah that the King can suck it back out through our gas tanks."
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By koteli on 2008-01-18 14:55:55
Off-topic
P. Krugman comments the stimulus package on his blog:
Best stimulus headline: “Bush stimulates the bears.”
Would you buy a used economic policy from these men? (Bush, Paulson and Cheyney)
And a bit deeper: "Return of the tax families"
And Dean Baker is a bit pessimist:
"The reality is that the economy is in serious trouble and the honchos like Bernanke don't really know what's going on. These folks completely missed the housing bubble as it grew to ever more dangerous levels. As the bubble has started to deflate, they now recognize that we have a problem, but they have no idea how bad it is or how to deal with it."
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By koteli on 2008-01-18 15:11:44
"prediction : in 2012 china will be being begged to buy boeing. they say they will think about it. meanwhile DC will cling stubbornly to his theory that 'dollar hegemony' (i e free credit extended to spendthrift america, by itself ) is an unfair advantage."
By 2012, the Chinese won't be buying anymore expensive Boeing aircraft. China state-owned AVIC 1 and AVIC 2 will have completed development of a domestic widebody CS-2000 commercial jetliner. While a Chinese-built Jetliner will have very limited appeal to US Airlines, the prospects are much brighter for export to most developing nations. For instance, currently the largest export customer for the Chinese-built MA-60 turboprop aircraft is India Airlines. The new ARJ-21 Regional Jet also has export orders to Laos Airlines.
PHOTO: China ARJ-21 Regional Jet
http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/arj21/arj213.html
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By Dave Chiang on 2008-01-18 15:22:32
Off-Topic:
A $3 Trillion U.S. Bankruptcy Will Now Start To Emerge
Jan. 11, 2008 (EIRNS)—An experienced European banker writes "the problems of 2008 are of a completely different order of magnitude than those we saw in 2007."
We have entered a period now, he explained, in which large banks and financial firms are opening their books to external auditors, after having announced losses for the fourth quarter of 2007 according to their own internal surveys. But these external audits are now finding different values than those previously announced. (Surprise, surprise!—ed.) Thus, said the banker, we might expect a whole series of aggravated balance sheets, including legal bankruptcies of banks and financial companies.
Whereas the losses officially calculated by central banks are already tremendous, in the order of hundreds of billions of dollars, the real write-off concerns some $3 trillion, the source said. That is what is starting to emerge now.
Take this as the real context for the reports and rumors of $40 billion or so in "new" losses, swirling in recent days around just two financial firms, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch.
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By Guest on 2008-01-18 15:34:47
State cannot be involved in capitalism. It can work for smaller countries like singapore. In the long run capitalism must be run by enterpreneur and not by government.Given the size of the economy chinese government government must actively pursue to disengage from the economy rather than actively involved in it which seems to be the case recently.
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By satish on 2008-01-18 15:47:46
"China's capital controls mean that private sector money, mostly from the country's burgeoning trade surplus, cannot easily leave the country......In an open, less controlled economy, these pressures mean the currency would appreciate or interest rates would rise."
appreciate?
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By RebelEconomist on 2008-01-18 15:49:16
Yesterday, GWB talked about Peak-Oil:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/peak/oil/prweb635891.htm
[In an ABC Nightline interview, President Bush recently said of Saudi Arabia, "If they don't have a lot of additional oil to put on the market, it is hard to ask somebody to do something they may not be able to do." According to TheOilDrum.com, this statement seems to indicate that George W. Bush, like many others, is skeptical of Saudi oil production claims. Forecasts of future world oil production by official organization like the IEA and the EIA assume OPEC can increase production by any desired amount; if OPEC's capability is limited, official production forecasts are optimistic because they are based on false assumptions.]
It's also interesting that EU's Energy Commissioner changed his mind in just two years:
"What a Difference Two Years Makes" by Luis de Sousa:
http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/3513
It's not for your relief, Brad, but it should bring some polcy reaction to overconsumer americans and global dependence on oil.
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By koteli on 2008-01-18 15:50:39
"....this shift will end some of the distortions associated with excessive official demand for bonds, distortions that indirectly helped to encourage over-investment in residential real estate, excessive home price appreciation and the subprime crisis."
These distortions would have been much reduced had the Fed itself not piled up $724bn of treasuries in the SOMA:
http://reservedplace.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-economic-policy-shot-in-foot-1-soma.html
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By RebelEconomist on 2008-01-18 15:55:04
rebel -- the increase in the fed's holdings over the past few years is far smaller than the increase in the holdings of other central banks.
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By bsetser on 2008-01-18 15:56:59
I would be interested to know more details of what you mean by this DC:
"Perhaps after the British were shafted by US Treasury officials to dump 60% of their Gold reserve holdings at half the current spot price...."
It would be news to me.
While this decision of British leaders was clearly not a good one, I do support my government's welcome to the CIC. As far as I am concerned, they can buy what they like here. If I don't like what they do with a British business, I will simply stop patronising it.
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By RebelEconomist on 2008-01-18 16:05:22
"chinese government government must actively pursue to disengage from the economy rather than actively involved in it which seems to be the case recently."
The Chinese government has never stated that it intends to remake their economy into the laizze-faire image of the United States. The often stated goal is a "socialist-market economy" with the Chinese state retaining majority ownership in strategic industries including defense, energy, media, banking and telecoms. For instance, shares of PetroChina can be purchased in the United States on the NYSE, but 84% of the energy corporation is retained by the Chinese state. However, foreign corporations can purchase 100% ownership in non-strategic Chinese industries including hotels and beverages. For instance, America's Anheiser-Busch owns 100% of Wuhan Brewery Corporation which brews Budweiser for the Chinese market. In a strategic industry, America's AT&T was denied a wireless phone license for Shanghai by the Chinese government.
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By Dave Chiang on 2008-01-18 16:09:51
But Brad, if the US authorities thought that low long-term interest rates were a problem, why were they not SELLING treasuries, particularly as central banks (eg ECB, BoE) seem to be moving towards using repo to supply/back their currency for technical reasons anyway?
No doubt one reason is that they are too busy telling other countries what to do!
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By RebelEconomist on 2008-01-18 16:16:29
the fed's preferred explanation for the conundrum was well grounded inflationary expectations and a fall in the term premium, not foreign central banks. the fed's intellectual culture leans strongly against the idea that central bank intervention can affect say the fx market (it is driven by "fundmanentals") or that central bank demand drives the long-term treasury market.
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By bsetser on 2008-01-18 16:26:26
What I find astonishing is how many educated people intimitly connected to the evolving "new (financial) world orde" did not realize the impact of ongoing imbalances. I have a friend who works for the ECB (European central bank). After my summer vacacion which I spend reading every newespaper I could get hold of on the emerging subprime crisis ( while having read and worried about US trade deficit, govermental and personal debt ATMHouses ect for quite a while my peronal tick off came with the bad news of IKB- a small to middle sized German Bank catering to middlesized business) I called my friend to get some deeper insight and educated analysis. When I asked him whether he thought the US financial situation was a troublesome one he basically answered. "Not really, they can always print dollars".
While a have no idea how things will change, it is difficult to picture how the US will keep their might. On following macroeconomics you see history evolving. This is fascinating.
To a certain degree I mourn the USA. While living there I was always bewildered to see the discrepancy between a at that point obviously troubled but for me as an european stimulating and energising society (1997-2000) and the founding idea of the USA. Things have not gotten better since for many reasons, a lot of them having been discussed on this blog.
I still do hope that the USA as utopian idea of a society will live on somewhere.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." Samuel Adams, (1722-1803)
BMH
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By Guest on 2008-01-18 16:37:27
While there are no offical objections to the recent inflow of money from sovereign wealth funds into the US ( as opposed to the unsuccessful Dubai Deal on harbours BEFORE financial crisis was jumping on your face) German Chancelor Merkel cautions the wisdom to let them buy into ( european) assets without regulation. She does not explicetly gives her opion onin question potentially lacking democratic standerds of the countries in question but she clearly states that such investments are driven by politcal and other reasons. Very much Brad Setser line of argument if I get him right. She does look for US-style regulation though interestingly enough.
EU ‘should vet state-funded bids’
By Hugh Williamson in Berlin
Published: July 18 2007 20:13 | Last updated: July 18 2007 20:13
Europe should adopt a common approach for vetting corporate acquisitions by foreign state-controlled investors, Angela Merkel, German chancellor, said on Wednesday, adding that she favoured a US model for joint European action.
So-called “sovereign funds” were often driven by “political and other motivations”, rather than the investment returns that drive privately controlled funds, Ms Merkel said in Berlin.
Ms Merkel indicated she would push the issue up the European Union agenda, listing it among her priorities for the rest of her term, which is due to end in autumn 2009. “This is a new phenomenon that we must tackle with some urgency,” she said." FT
BMH
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By Guest on 2008-01-18 17:04:37
This, from Pettis, is exactly what I argued in a previous post - there is no change in money supply effect by forcing banks to hold fx. You disagreed.
"Beginning in August of this year, as it has been raising minimum reserve requirements, the PBoC has also been forcing banks to hold at least part of their new required reserves in the form of dollars at the PBoC. One simple way of thinking about this is that it is as if Chinese commercial banks have had to increase their required RMB reserves, and then have been forced to swap these new required reserves into dollars – so that they go from holding RMB in their PBoC required reserve accounts to holding US dollars in the same accounts.
What is the point of swapping RMB required reserves into dollars? It seems to do two things. First, holding dollars in China is a losing proposition because of expected RMB revaluation, and so by forcing commercial banks to use RMB reserves to “buy” dollar reserves, the PBoC is effectively transferring the future foreign exchange loss from its own balance sheet to that of the commercial banks (unless it has hedge agreements in place, in which case it has no impact on profits and losses).
Second, by forcing a transfer of dollars from the PBoC account into the commercial bank accounts, it reduces the headline foreign exchange reserve number and seems to imply that there is both less pressure on the currency and less money in domestic circulation.
But I don’t think either of these two implications is correct. It seems to me that forcing banks instead of the PBoC to hold dollars says nothing about pressure on the currency. I would argue that the total net inflows are exactly the same except for one thing – commercial banks have been asked to assume part of the PBoC’s normal functioning (i.e. to buy dollars so as to maintain the country’s foreign currency regime), and as they assume this function the resulting purchases of dollars are whisked off the PBoC balance sheet. But nothing real has changed, except that now banks, instead of the PBoC, will be forced to assume the foreign exchange losses.
Second, what is the effect of this “swapping” of currencies on the domestic money supply? None at all, it seems to me. Banks will have exactly the same amount of loans outstanding as they did before the currency swap, and all the other monetary aggregates will be the same. This is because the required reserves held at the PBoC are effectively “dead” anyway, and redenominating their currency changes nothing real.
Headline reserves will be lower, of course, but Chinese money supply will be exactly the same as if the required reserves had never been swapped into dollars. It is the existence of minimum required reserve rates that presumably has an impact on domestic monetary policy, not the denomination of those required reserves. The PBoC could force banks every month to swap from RMB into dollars and back again, and the only real impact would be to change headline reserves every month. Real money supply in China would not change at all.
If my analysis is correct, (and if any reader thinks it isn’t, please correct me) I think the policy to force banks to hold part of their required reserves in dollars does nothing to improve China’s liquidity position but makes the PBoC less transparent. I am not sure how this helps."
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By Anonymous on 2008-01-18 20:02:30
Brad,
Have you made a period comparison in your 'new world order' analysis?
I don't see much "new" about it.
None of what is happening is surprising in my judgment. All part of the outcome of adjusted global production while maintaining the relative strength of valued consumer markets (the key ones, anyway).
Economic Hydrology Theory (EHT) is alive and well. As expected, since I first stated it on your web log a few years ago.
There should be no major confusion or concern as to what is happening. The pieces of the puzzle fit together rather nicely. Almost a perfectly designed plan. And one that should be understood easily.
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By Movie Guy on 2008-01-18 23:58:10
RebelEconomist on 2008-01-18 16:16:29
Central banks can't use repo (reverse repo to be correct from the CB perspective) to collateralize the entire (or the bulk of the) monetary base because the effect on short term rates would be too risky and volatile. CB's need tight control over their market interface in the short end. This is why they need the backstop of term structure for most of their assets - it's necessary for stability and leverage in implementing reserve management and short term interest rate control. They can't be conducting daily transactions on their entire balance sheet or operational chaos would be the result. No central bank does that.
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By Anonymous on 2008-01-19 08:04:20
Gordon Brown opened the door to billions of pounds of investment from China yesterday by encouraging its state investment arm to take stakes in British companies.
During a visit to Beijing the Prime Minister invited China's sovereign wealth fund, which has a capitalisation of $200 billion (£100 billion), to begin investing in Britain.
In a joint press conference with Wen Jiabao, the Chinese Prime Minister, Mr Brown said that the move would bring welcome investment to Britain and urged the fund to choose London as the base for its first overseas office.
In return, Mr Wen gave him private and public assurances that the state investment company would meet British requirements for transparency and corporate governance rules and would operate on a purely commercial basis.
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By Guest on 2008-01-19 09:02:52
you know, i don't quite know what wen means when he argues the cic will operate on a purely commercial basis.
the CIC was set up to take some of the sterilization burden off the central bank -- that is a policy goal.
the CIC will support the offshore expansion of China's SOEs (see China railways) -- a policy goal. no doubt it also expects a commercial return, but it will be under substantial pressure to participate in these kinds of investments.
and the CIC will be the holding company for China's stake in its state banks, which are still used, in various ways, as instruments of official policy.
Its offshore investments may be purely commercial (We don't yet know), but its overall structure clearly isn't commercial.
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By bsetser on 2008-01-19 10:13:25
bsetser on 2008-01-18 16:26:26: "the fed's intellectual culture leans strongly against the idea that central bank intervention can affect say the fx market (it is driven by "fundmanentals") or that central bank demand drives the long-term treasury market"
Ben Bernanke 21/11/2002: "A more direct method, which I personally prefer, would be for the Fed to begin announcing explicit ceilings for yields on longer-maturity Treasury debt (say, bonds maturing within the next two years). The Fed could enforce these interest-rate ceilings by committing to make unlimited purchases of securities up to two years from maturity at prices consistent with the targeted yields."
But then the Fed do seem to just make it up as they go along!
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By RebelEconomist on 2008-01-19 12:28:53
Anonymous on 2008-01-19 08:04:20:
There is more than enough depth in the euro repo market for the ECB to back its currency supply with repo, and the euro and dollar repo markets and currency supply are similar in size (see eg BIS WP 218). The most recent routine weekly ECB "main refinancing operation" alone lent 190.5bn euros. I do not understand your point about the effect of repo on the short rate being risky and volatile at all. Monetary policy is usually calibrated in terms of a short term debt interest rate; surely it is more sensible to achieve this by dealing in short term debt.
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By RebelEconomist on 2008-01-19 13:03:16
rebel -- you got me.
i always found the fed's view that its purchases of us assets set monetary conditions in the us while foreign central bank purchases have no impact on the us a bit strange. clearly, when the fed buys us treasuries for cash it creates money, and foreign central banks do not. but the goal of the fed's liquidity creation is to lower long-term rates and thus stimulate activity, and central bank purchases from abroad (and policies that create the surpluses) have a broadly similar effect.
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By bsetser on 2008-01-19 13:57:34
Simply put, contrary to the impressions they attempt to create, neither the Fed nor the ECB have "injected" material amounts of "liquidity" into the international banking system in recent months. This is not a call for them to do so - to some extent their hands are tied by inflation pressures, currency risks, and profligate government spending (particularly in the U.S.). The problem is that by creating the illusion that they are doing something material - when the problem in the global financial system is not confidence, or liquidity, but solvency - the Fed and the ECB misdirect the attention of investors, provide false hope, and will ultimately do a great disservice to investors and to their own credibility.....
At present, the Fed has injected less than $20 billion in total “liquidity” since March – nearly all of which has been withdrawn from the banking system as currency in circulation. Normally, the Fed would have done a “permanent” open market operation by now, to finance this increase in currency demand (which predictably grows by $30-50 billion annually). But by constantly rolling over temporary repos every week or two instead, the Fed can act as if it is “doing more.”....In short, the Fed is doing nothing more than predictably rolling over its repos, but with great flourish as if something more is going on.....
Last week, the market shot higher on reports that the European Central Bank was injecting 348.6 billion euro (the equivalent of US$500 billion) of liquidity into the European banking system. The truth is that the ECB actually drained liquidity last week.....
JUST AS IN THE U.S., the bulk of the reserves in the European banking system are financed by the continuous rollover of repurchase agreements. In the Euro-zone, the total outstanding amount of these repos has been fairly steady around 450 billion euro. Also, as in the U.S., the ECB has moderately increased the amount of repos outstanding to cover the holiday period through January 4. Still, this increase has only had only minor effect on the 30-day average, and even measured daily, represents only about 38 billion in additional euro to cover the holiday currency demand for the entire Euro-area.
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By Guest on 2008-01-19 17:51:37
Can anyone explain the role of Fed? Is it good monetary condition or economic stimulant?. From my perpective a good economy will settle with less money supply through deflation. The economy will rectify the excesses( prices and supply) on its own. Albeit at lower prices, the economy will start to flourish.By cutting interest rates means they want to pursue overpricing and excesses in any forms.If there is a supply crisis,Fed intervention makes sense. Otherwise demand-supply balance will take care of themselves.
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By Satish on 2008-01-19 19:55:44
Well good luck to Merkel and Schumer in trying to keep SWFs from buying into "strategic" sectors. My thought is that things may get so bad and the need for foreign capital injections so desperate that the US will cave in and let the SWF buy whatever they want. Beggars can't be choosers.
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By Guest on 2008-01-19 22:15:44
There are two articles in the weekend edition of the Harold Tribune International on the future of economic devolopement in ME.
Both articles state that the most important stretigic goal is not to sustain the economy via ( stratetic?) foreign investment but via developement of a homebased sustainable and competitive economy:
Mohamed Shafik Gabr, Chairman of the arab business council of the World economic forum
in his oped article " Time to relaunch" discusses causes for the minor role ME plays today in global economics and than elaborates what needs to be done to improve the situation:
"The most telling statistic in the World Economic Forum's latest Global Competitiveness Report is that not a single Arab state made the top 25.
It is another stark reminder that, for all its billions of oil dollars and huge reserves, the Arab world remains a net importer of foreign technology and services. Even the mighty Kuwait, ranked 30th, lags behind minnows like Estonia"
He names low levels of foreign and intraregional investment as causes for
"low growth, high unemployment and poor economic development 20 years of Arab economic stagnation".
He goes into strategies that need to be implemented to "increase (Arab business) competitiveness within the global economy".
He views the politic instability as an obstacle in achieving this goal
"Our region's political instability is a significant, but not exclusive, obstacle to economic regeneration."
"To kickstart a revival of the Arab world's social and economic fortunes - our second renaissance, or, in today's parlance, a relaunch - we need to remind ourselves that our region has a rich cultural and scientific heritage." ( as I mentioned on my 2nd post)
"We need to foster a culture that celebrates entrepreneurship, research, innovation and technology - all essential to sustain growth and development in the Arab world. The expansion of more competitive export sectors, other than those based on natural resources, is no longer a luxury, but an imperative."
He adresses the need of a more open society and the role women would have to play in this society
"Arab leaders simply have to develop more business-friendly policies and to initiate structural reforms at a faster pace. Greater investment in local research and development, female empowerment in the workplace and job creation schemes for skilled workers and graduates would be a good start in defusing the demographic time bomb that awaits countries like Egypt and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia."
He adresses the problem of strategic foreign investment " Far too often, we conform to the stereotype of the rich Arab and play into the hands of cynical business commentators. But as long as we are involved piecemeal in the apparently random acquisition of expensive Western corporate trophies, allegedly in the name of strategic economic diversification, who can disagree with them?"
He states money was not the issue
"Money, of course, is not the issue. After 9/11, many Arabs repatriated some of the $1 trillion of money then believed to be invested outside the region. This sudden liquidity, coupled with record oil prices, means that greater capital sums are now available for investment."
( I am not sure about that, money is alwas an issue. From what one can read in the press the question of currency appreciation and dollar depegging seems to be a hot topic in the arab financial/ business/political circles- To achieve the above mentioned goals they need high skilled people. These people are not going to to a good job if all there earnings are being eaten up to pay for a place to live and something to eat. So inflation needs to be adressed on a short term basis. Appreciation of the currency means that assests in form of other peoples debt ( US-treasuries) loose value, which means less money to invest in needed projects. Also the arab business world should be contemplating a worst case scenario regarding dollar depreciation and/ or default on debt issued by the US-Government. The evolving pattern of the subprime/financial crisis is, that at the end of the day all the bad credit finds its way onto the balance sheet of the US government. This is not going to improve the rating of debt issued by the US government. In this scenario it is only prudent to diversify away from assets that are the debts of the counterside to tangible assest like shares of a company. I would do the exact same thing and I am not a " state lacking democratic legitimation")
He ends by stressing the importance of a political will to implement economic/social reforms
"But if we are to become masters of our own destiny in shaping an economic future that is not based solely on a finite supply of national resources, we need to harness the political will to step up our reforms now."
Basically it would be hard to find arguments to make the ME responsible for the current dire situation of the US-society. And the argument towards the need of "political will to step up reforms" could and should be picked up by the U.S..
The other article "The construction site called Saudi Arabia" by Jad Mouawad describes how far the vision has allready been materialised using a large petrochemical plant as an impressive example.
"The Saudi economy was in idle mode for 20 years," said John Sfakianakis, the chief economist at SABB, formerly known as the Saudi British Bank, who is based in Riyadh, the Saudi capital. "Today, the feeling here is, 'We've won the lottery; let's not waste it.' "
"Despite all the recent headlines about Middle East investors bailing out troubled American banks like Citigroup, a growing share of today's petrodollars are staying at home to finance megaprojects like Petro Rabigh, analysts say. That money is financing the biggest economic boom in a generation, helping to build not only the high-rises of Dubai, where the world's tallest tower is going up, but also telecommunications networks, roads and universities throughout the Middle East."
"... while times are good today, many Saudis realize that their country is locked in a race against time to create industries that produce more than just oil in order to keep a young and growing population employed. The kingdom, which has a population of 24.5 million, including nearly 7 million foreigners, has what one analyst called a "human time bomb." About 40 percent of Saudis are under 15, and because the country has one of the world's highest birth rates, the population is expected to reach nearly 40 million by 2025."
" But while oil-rich states are still buying American Treasury bonds or military hardware from the West, analysts say the more significant trend is for a growing share of their investments to be pumped into local projects."
""The vision is to turn the kingdom into a major industrial power by 2020," said Jean-François Seznec, a professor at Georgetown University who is a specialist in industrial policies in the Gulf. "
Both articles are worth to be read in full length.
BMH
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By Guest on 2008-01-20 06:37:09
Dave Chiang: The NJ state owned employees pension fund also invests in China Mobile and China Telecom, so why is that so different.
This is why:
Dave Chiang: ...the Chinese state retaining majority ownership in strategic industries including defense, energy, media, banking and telecoms
Is the following true? The political system of the United States allows large investors in American companies a great deal of influence over the American political system. The degree of influence is greater than large investors in Chinese companies have over the Chinese political system.
Dave Chiang: the Chinese foreign ministry is explicit in stating that the Chinese government will not interfere in the internal afairs of other sovereign nations ... The Chinese SWF will act accordingly in the economic sphere and will not attempt to politically dictate the policies of companies that it invests in.
Human beings have been known to behave in ways that belie what they have said in the past. Do you really believe that political leaders will not use whatever tools they can to get what they want? They will weigh the costs and beneifts and decide. One of the costs will be the perception that they are meddling of course. However, the time may come when this is a small price to pay for control.
We in the US must weigh the costs and benefits of a degree of Chinese control over important American industries and thus a degree of (potential?) Chinese control over our political system.
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By Ponzi Q. Globalization on 2008-01-20 09:58:48
The New Financial Order ..... Reordered
Sunday, January 20, 2008
'Decay Model E' : Oct 1987 and ? Jan 2008: the Terminal 23 July 1987 and 16 August 2007 x/2.5x/2x/1.5-1.6x Lammert Nonstochastic Fractal Sequences
In 1987 the US macroeconomy during and after the rapid Wilshire October equity devolution was in a healthy state. Underpinned by massive percentage GDP deficit cold war military expenditures, by its position as a world creditor nation with high savings, by its NAFTA-less WTO-less role as a net exporting and manufacturing nation, by its role as the foremost innovative technology R and D developer and manufacturer of microcircuits and computer chips - very equivalent to the 1950's transistor revolution- and by the related ongoing explosive marketing of the PC, the 1987 US macroeconomy was a global economic steamroller. The tranisent nonlinear October 1987 equity collapse was quite simply secondary to transient overvaluation and investor saturation; an nonstochastic saturation event that occurred in an otherwise remarkable economic growth period. Over twenty years later, the US macroeconomy suffers from a most severe dysequilibrium, the necessary consequences of 'globalization' of its possibly formerly more nationalistic US corporations. Maximal profit motive drove US corporate CEO's and boards of directors to make business decisions and influence American politicians in the passage of globalization agreements that would maximize corporate profits. Ultimately corporate profit motive has relegated the American consumer to a significantly indebted borrower - with corporations gaining large profits from the financial debt business and the business of importing and distribution of cheap labor produced items to the US consumer market. During this same time low interest rates - politically and economically necessitated by the 32 month or so collapse of the high tech bubble, lending parameters of the financial industry, and artificial transient wealth created from the resulting inflation of the housing bubble synergistically provided the dynamics for the unsustainable debt driven economic growth. Globalized corporations had record profits - reaping benefits from both lending to American consumers and selling cheap-labor imported manufactured goods. First, the saturated and overvalued housing bubble crested and remaining investment money was focused on the equity and commodity markets. As the available investment money further contracted by ongoing debt default and associated restricted lending, the residual was lastly focused on the commodity markets. At the end there will be inadequate amounts of investment money available to support commodities. Without any particular Federal Reserve monetary action, residual investment money, as many times past predicted, has optimally flowed into the US federal debt market driving the ten year note to a four year low. The 2008 US macroeconomy is triply saturated: saturated with a large supply of overvalued assets, saturated with asset over-ownership, and saturated with debt - all three supported by a contracting number of disproportionally service-related US jobs. 2.6 trillion dollars has undergone devolution from the Wilshire's 11 October 2007predicted high. January 2008 is not October 1987. It likely represents the nonlinear devolution area of a major generational consumer saturation time phase predicted in The Economic Fractlist. Near ideal Lammert x/2.5x/2x/1.5x fractal progression may soon occur. For the 1987 Wilshire it was 9-10/24-25/20/15 days and for the 2008 Wilshire it may likely be 17-18/44/34/25-27 days.
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By Lammert on 2008-01-20 11:28:38
Guest on 2008-01-19 17:51:37,
You are right that the media does not mention the amount of central bank lending that is rolling off........why let the facts get in the way of a good story! However, while the amount of lending may not have increased much (I don't suppose it could without a reduction in the interest rate target), the central banks have been responding to the credit squeeze by changing the form in which they provide liquidity. For example, to counter the wide ted spread, the Fed has been buying less t-bills and doing more repo, thereby providing another source of funding for banks' non-treasury assets - ie the banks can pledge those assets as collateral. The Fed has also been lending for a longer term than normal, to tackle the steep LIBOR curve.
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By RebelEconomist on 2008-01-20 12:51:53
bsetser: you know, i don't quite know what wen means when he argues the cic will operate on a purely commercial basis.
It means that the number one overriding mandate of CIC is not to lose money and require a government bailout. CIC is intended to be a profit center and not a loss center.
> the CIC was set up to take some of the sterilization burden off
> the central bank -- that is a policy goal.
No. Issuing government bonds to capitalize CIC was a legal requirement that had the nice side-effect of reducing sterilization, but that wasn't the main policy goal. There have been other situations (such as the recapitalization of China Development Bank) in which the State Council made it harder for PBC to sterilize currency.
> the CIC will support the offshore expansion of China's SOEs (see
> China railways) -- a policy goal. no doubt it also expects a
> commercial return, but it will be under substantial pressure to
> participate in these kinds of investments.
No. CIC hasn't invested money that would support overseas expansion of SOE's. In the case of China Railways, the money raised by the IPO was purely for expansion within the PRC.
There's no particular reason to think that CIC will be under pressure to participate in overseas strategic expansion of SOE's, since the State Council has another mechanism (namely the Export-Import Bank of China) that can participate in this expansion.
> and the CIC will be the holding company for China's stake in its
> state banks, which are still used, in various ways, as instruments
> of official policy.
And the chain of command for those instructions completely bypasses CIC, and if they end up hurting CIC's bottom line that CIC will push back on those instructions.
I also suspect that if you wait a year or so, you'll see stock swaps as CIC diversifies by selling shares in the banks for other things.
> Its offshore investments may be purely commercial (We don't yet
> know), but its overall structure clearly isn't commercial.
Personally, I think that CIC's board is as commercial as you can make it. You have the board consist of several different agencies that don't particularly like each other, and are unlikely to cooperate on policy. The only thing that the Board of CIC agrees on is that CIC is supposed to end up making a profit.
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By Twofish on 2008-01-22 01:22:36
Ponzi: Is the following true? The political system of the United States allows large investors in American companies a great deal of influence over the American political system. The degree of influence is greater than large investors in Chinese companies have over the Chinese political system.
I don't think either statement is true. Campaign finance laws in the US means that you get a lot of influence if you can mobilize large numbers of donors and create political action committees, neither of which is helped by China investing large amounts in US corporations.
It *is* helped a lot by having politically influential people in the United States make lots of money in China and having US exports generate lots of jobs, and things like the US-China Business Council does influence US policy toward China in ways that are favorable to China, but that is going to happen regardless of Chinese investment.
Also foreign investors in Chinese companies do have quite a bit of influence in Chinese politics. Groups like the American Chamber of Commerce in China and US-China Business Council are quite active in the Chinese legislative process. (It surprises people to know that China has a legislative process.)
Ponzi: We in the US must weigh the costs and benefits of a degree of Chinese control over important American industries and thus a degree of (potential?) Chinese control over our political system.
I think you are looking at the wrong thing. Having a Chinese SWF own large amounts of US business doesn't appreciable increase Chinese influence over the US political system, but having people in the Austin, Texas high-tech community whose jobs are dependent on sales of software to China, does......
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By Twofish on 2008-01-22 01:35:23
DC: By 2012, the Chinese won't be buying anymore expensive Boeing aircraft. China state-owned AVIC 1 and AVIC 2 will have completed development of a domestic widebody CS-2000 commercial jetliner.
CS-2000 isn't set to come out before 2020. In any case, I don't think it is a good idea for a Chinese airline to buy local just for the sake of buying local, especially since both Airbus and Boeing are building factories in China.
I wouldn't be surprised if as part of the CS-2000 project AVIC 1 and AVIC 2 starts sourcing parts from the United States.
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By Twofish on 2008-01-22 01:43:41
Twofish:
It *is* helped a lot by having politically influential people in the United States make lots of money in China and having US exports generate lots of jobs, and things like the US-China Business Council does influence US policy toward China in ways that are favorable to China, but that is going to happen regardless of Chinese investment.
Agreed. But politically influential people make money in the US helped by Chinese investment so you have the Chinese influence over the US political process again.
Promises of jobs are not the only way to way to wield power in the US. Promises of returns on investments do the trick too. A finance-centric capitalist ideology that blows smoke up people's backsides and misleading statistics can be used to bring the millions on board.
Also foreign investors in Chinese companies do have quite a bit of influence in Chinese politics. Groups like the American Chamber of Commerce in China and US-China Business Council are quite active in the Chinese legislative process. (It surprises people to know that China has a legislative process.)
Interesting. I didn't know this. Any pointers to literature?
Having a Chinese SWF own large amounts of US business doesn't appreciable increase Chinese influence over the US political system...
I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense to me. You have Chinese gov't controlled entities bailing out and owning portions of strategically important American industries and you say that they have no influence over the running of these industries? It's common knowledge that these industries do have political influence. Put one fish and another fish together and you get two fish. The sh*tty returns on these investments should tell you something else is going on. That is, these investments are not totally about the desire for financial gains.
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By Ponzi Q. Globalization on 2008-01-22 06:47:40
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